More Interesting Than Average, re: flag burning

Rex Iscariot (acidrain@cryogen.com)
I used to have a serious problem with flag burning. Back in high school I had an acquaintance who used to say, "Burning a flag should be legal as long as you wrap it around your head first." I actively supported a Constitutional amendment to prohibit flag burning. I have always believed in the potential of the United States; the storybook idealized US of A, where men and women were truly free, where there was no slavery, no censorship or war on ideas, no McCarthism or gun control or religionists trying to control our lives; a nation dedicated to freedom and ever suspicious and vigilant by the attempts of both the Left and the Right to destroy freedom and individual rights in order to force their ideology, philosophy, or religion on the rest of us. As I grew older and wiser, I learned how far from this potential America had strayed. The people who vigorously oppose the burning of the flag, mainly the "Love it or leave it Conservatives", a club I once considered myself part of, are hypocrites, and part of the corruption and perversion of the American ideal. There is perhaps nothing stronger in the human spirit than the eternal struggle for freedom. For this drive is stronger than any revulsion brought on by a symbolic act like burning Old Glory, or protest marches by your political opponents, or the most explicit of sexual expression. Or perhaps, I should say, there is nothing stronger than freedom for a truly independent and just human being. People who actively campaign against flag burning are cowards. They are not the American heroes they claim to be - and for anyone to reify America and all of its popular symbols as it is today, displays a complete lack of morality, principle, or awareness of what this country has become. America as it stands is a corruption, a perverse, adulterated shell of what it CAN be. Flag burning should be defended vigorously not in spite of the fact that such an act is offensive and provocative, but *because* it is offensive and provocative. In the tradition of our founding fathers who did not mince words nor hold back the expression of their ideas because certain individuals might find it offensive ("Give me liberty or give me death!"), one might say that flag burning is very much in the American tradition - whether it's a Trotskyist, a libertarian, a liberal, a socialist, a neo-Nazi, etc.
john pawlak (johnrp@home.com)
Most of my family is religiously against burning the flag, and thinks that anyone who does so should be expelled from this country. When I ask them "What would a less free country do to you if one of their citizens burned their flag?" The answer I always get is "They'd be put in jail! They'd be kicked out of the country! They'd be killed!" I, for one, don't want this country to become like those "less free" countries. If freedom is to mean anything, then we must allow others to burn the flag, even in protest. Now THAT is TRUE freedom! John
Feria () 27 Mar 00
why we are burning the American Flag, I'm not quite sure. It's either out of disrespect or you enjoy it. I'm not exactly clear on why you would want to burn a flag, and ours of all of the flags. I mean, we are the richest country with the most opportunities in the world, and all you can do is show no respect for all the people who died to win our independence, and how hard we have worked to make this country what it is. I'm not saying the coutnry is perfect, because it's far from it. But people from foreign countries, for hundreds of years, have wanted to come here to start over. We take too much for granted, including the flag. The flag represents what we are supposed to be, a country with dignity, a country with life, and country where everyone is free. You are burning our freedom by disrespecting that flag. Is that really what you want us to be? A country with no respect for even itself? By doing this, you are taking away so much with just one little action. God, make it stop, please.
Andy (a-kvernb@online.no) 02 Apr 00
Quote, Alys: "Why would you want to burn the American flag!?!?" If this is the best respond you can come up with, it proves you have not done much to understand the situation. The United States is a shite country with profits from other nations' dismay. Pánama, Viet Nam, Iraq, Nicaragua, I could go on for ages. Quote, Feria: "I mean, we are the richest country with the most opportunities in the world, and all you can do is show no respect for all the people who died to win our independence [...]" How did you become the richest country in the world? Remember when you were in kindergarden, and the biggest, nastiest boy always had a way to get all the best toys? Whatever happened to honoring the foreigners that died to give the USA its position in the world today? The innocent, civilian Vietnamese, Koreans, Nicaraguans, etc. ad infinitum. I have myself proudly burned the American flag several times, and I will continue to do so until the American rape of the rest of the world stops! A people with a so narrow realism that it can be offended by a flag-burning is as inane as a child who makes a fury of being pointed nose at. And that is what the American culture has become: a people with unreal ideals and values, where the best of the best is anything with bright colours and a low price. Profiting from dealing weapons with guerillas all over the world (Sudan, Guatemala, Afghanistan, Pakistan, the regimes of PINOCHET and SADDAM HUSSAYN), dealing drugs (Iran-contras, Venezuela) and executing hidden genocides and assasinations every day. I have studied this subject to a grand scale, you may choose not to believe any of my accusations even before checking it out, but in that case, you'd be the fool. Anyone who dismisses anything he/she dislikes without even looking at it, is stupid enough to fit perfectly into the proud people of the United Shite of America. As for Saddam, I'd like to add that every nucleon of biochemical weaponry he has, was provided by the USA in the war between Iraq and Iran, raging from 1979 to '89. It took only a few years before Saddam was the Grand Devil, for only owning these weapons. I do not support Saddam, but criticise the American way of choosing and reasoning its enemies. What about Bülent Eçevit, the Turkish president who gasses triple the time of Kurds in his own country? Is he not as evil? No, Turkey is even allowed to be a member of the NATO, because it hosts naval bases to the USA, giving a secure and strategic position, guarding the Bosborous Strait, and again a control of the Russian (Soviet) Black Sea Fleet. So, then, it's all right. Again, quote Feria: "By doing this, you are taking away so much with just one little action. God, make it stop, please." By saying this, you are neglecting so much with your selective mind. Please, think again before you praise your country. You may love your country as much as you want, I believe it might have done good things for you, but think again, please, before you accept every little American thing. Your country is not all glory.
Dan () 05 Apr 00
Dear Andy, Yes, I'm sure that it's true that the U.S.A. has done some bad things, but as for the countries that we've stepped on to get to the top, fuck them. Others would do the same to us if they had a chance, we just beat them to the punch. Just like the kid in class who got all the best toys, if you were as tough as he was you would get all the best toys. Thats life. Survivar of the fittest. What are these other countries going to do? Nothing. If you sympathise with them so much, go fucking live there. See what happens if you protest over there, you'll get shot. I'm proud to be an american, no matter what we've done.
gumby () 02 May 00
i hate governments of all kinds. Only when the human race as a whole is smart enough that they do not need to be controlled by a government and its laws can we truly be free. .ANARCHY FOREVER.
Margaret (uwntit777@hotmail.com) 02 May 00
Well I have read many of your comments, and I would like to say that the flag has so many meanings that people should think about. What about the people that have a flag layed upon them at there funeral. Does that not mean anything to you people. It show that we do have people that care for our country and would never do such a thing as burning a UNITED STATES FLAG. If everyone could just understand that flags mean a lot to many people and if you want to burn a flag, do it in your backyard or somewhere where people don't know about it. Don't think I am condoning the idea of flagburning, but I do not think that everyone will just quit burning the flag because I asked them too, so if you could take it into consideration and do it where no one knows about it.
Eddy (edward_farmer@hotmail.com) 04 May 00
for all of u that think flag burning is worng i may not agree with this sight on burning flags but i will fight to the death for your right to say it.I think that burning our flag is one of the most ignorant things you can do, but that is what our ancestors fought and died for, the right to burn our flag if we want to. On the flip side, i think that people are taking our freedom for granted if they are burning the flag. Consider for a moment that we can burn our flag, that alone makes us lucky enough to have that kind of freedom. Freedom that shouldnt be taken for granted. so go ahead and burn the flag, i wont support the flames, but ill support the message behing the flames. Rember that all for those of u who say we shouldnt burn flags read this and think about it. We who burn flags are not all NAZIs
Dale G. Gibby (gabbygibby@juno.com) 08 May 00
To whom it may concern, I love the flag, and agree that its desecration is offensive. I am also offended by cross-burning, racism, pornography, and many works of art. However, desecration of rights is more important than desecration of a mere symbol. Furthermore, the right to free speech is the most important right of all. If a flag desecration amendment passes, I will desecrate one flag each week as an act of civil disobedience. I will mail the remains of these flags to American Legion headquarters. Furthermore, I will annually burn a flag in front of the American Legion national headquarters, with the press present. I will further use the internet to recruit others who feel as I do to do likewise. More flags will be destroyed in the first year than have been destroyed to date in history. This law can not be enforced because people will use some psuedo-flags, (missing various features). The law is not only an attempt to chip away at free speech, but it is a pointless and un-enforceable law. Rights are more important than fabric. Sincerely, Dale Gibby 880 Tobin Dr. #102 Inkster, MI 48141
American (America@aol.com) 13 Jun 00
I am an educator. I think burning the flag is an injustice to all Americans. I stumbled upon this site looking for some info on British Flags. I had no idea such things as this existed on an educational site. I will not share this with my students. I feel this is very wrong and unamerican. I have great pride in our country and my father fought for the freedom to fly the flag over many oceans. I think this would be a great diservice to our nation if we would have the right to burn the flag of our nation. I am proud that we have the right to fly the flag and not burn it as some of you uneducated people think.
Gwen:15 (gwen_johansen@hotmail.com) 12 Aug 00
I burned the flag not only for freedom of speech, but for freedom in general...The government is trying to take away all our rights. They take away our freedoms piece by piece so no one really notices a drastic change, and no one ever does anything about it. Can't you see what's happening to your country? Open up your eyes and look at the evidence. Dress codes in schools, laws about seatbelts and bicycle helmets, stipulations about signs you put up on your own property...what's next? Before you know it, they'll be outlawing foods they don't like, or telling you that your socks have to be a certain color. Sure, in contrast to other countries, the United States appears to be in good shape, which satisfies the government and the majority of the American public. On the other hand, when you focus solely on the U.S., an entire new horizon is discovered; a horizon where many problems are clearly visible. In the United States, in this day and age, the government attempts to control and censor every aspect of life leaving the American public with only the views, ideas, and information the government allows them to have. By doing this, they channel more and more power in their direction. If people don't start to take a stand, we'll lose all our freedom.I have no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of you out there that know exactly what I'm saying, so the choice has got to be yours...You can either endure increasing repression, or you can show your courage and join the fight.
tara lewis (nicole1524@hotmail.com) 01 Sep 00
this site was truly a stress reliever for me thank you Burning the flag is a right that was guarenteed to us many years ago in the first amendment to the constitution i beleive that we should have the right to do or say what we want without having to worry if it is going to offend someone
Michael Barton (rossstik64@hotmail.com) 03 Oct 00
Burning a flag can mean more than one thing. But no matter the reason, its always going to involve free speech. This is because free speach means you can speak your mind without getting your toes stepped on. For instance, My friend and I were burning a confederate flag on his private property, a pig (sorry, police officer) came up to us and said we would be arrested if we didn't put it out right away, to me that seems like my toes are being stepped on.
wood (illini49@hotmail.com) 15 Oct 00
I think that if you people hate the government so much, you should move to another country. Freedom of speech is not meant for people to just piss others off. It is pathetic that you people just burn the flag to make people mad. Did any of you ever have a family member die in war. Or have you ever had a family member be buried with the flag? If you have, you are violating them ever time you burn a flag. That is just wrong. Like I said, if you hate the government so much, get the hell out!
Amy (amylynn231@excite.com) 17 Oct 00
By burning the flag, many of you said that it makes you feel better because the way the government treats you NOW. I think it's so wrong to burn the flag because of what the government did for us THEN. People have and will continue to fight and die for what that flag has meant to Americans for hundreds of generations. By desicrating the flag, your desicrating the thousands of men and women who fought for it for so long. Without them, you might not have the right to be on this website right now.
Gwen:15 (gwen_johansen@hotmail.com) 19 Oct 00
In response to what "wood" said...Yes, people who only burn the flag to piss people off are losers (which they have a right to be...) On the other hand, burning the flag is our right, and we should be able to express that right without being cut down by other people. I respect your opinion, and would appreciate it if you would respect ours. We are not burning the flag to be disrespectful to those people who fought in wars...or those who were buried in flags...but in protest of the current condition of our nation's government. Burning the flag today does not mean that our country was not once a wonderful place to live, or that we don't appreciate the progress it has made and all that the founding fathers did for us. It means that our current government is not following the precident set by our founding fathers, so we're standing up for them. I'm sure that Washington and Lincoln would be proud to see us burning the flag to keep their vision of a beautiful nation alive.
Zane (punkman578@aol.com) 23 Oct 00
In response to what wood said about if we hate this country why dont we leave? Well I don't hate this country, I love this country, therefore I reserve the right to critisize it. I belive this country is corrupt and we need a change. by burning the flag we show that we no longer have any support or faith in this county and are ready for a change. We don't just burn the flag to piss people off, we do it to make a stand.
james (lion16@aol.com) 02 Nov 00
yes burning the flg is your right personally the american flag is the symbol of liberty to me and burning it to me at least makes YOU anti-liberty to me it would make more sense for a statemant of freedom to burn a swastica or hammer and scickle something that stands for oppression well i may dislike what you say but i will fight for your RIGHT to say it
Chris (moto_x250@hotmail.com) 03 Nov 00
In my search for info on the net, I stummbled across this website. I was looking for info on Hate for the United States from countries like Iran and Iraq..... Looking for a picture I found the your website and was very dissturbed. How is burning the American Flag a way of practicing Free Speech. And is there even such a thing as Free speech??? Everything you say has consequences. Therefore burning the American Flag and getting arrested should go together..Well...Its 3:45am and I still have to find some info on the net... Thanks.
Nici (nichole__98@hotmail.com) 16 Nov 00
The flag is a symbol of the United States and all that we are. Burning the flag would only show what hate you have for the US. Unless, of course you are just bored and feel like burning something. The flag sybolises freedom, hope, and what we have worked for to make our country the way it is today. I can see why it would be a ³hot issue² when someone attempts to burn the flag. It is an insult to the people who have fought for our freedom and also toward the people who appreciate what we have in the US. Most people believe that burning the flag is wrong, but how many people actually do it?
Matt (kentonized@yahoo.com) 18 Nov 00
Nici, burning the flag is not insulting the men and women who fought for our country. I'm sure if you ask any of them, did you fight this war for the country itself, and to protect our ideals, they would say yes. But if you went up to them, did you risk your life in this war for a piece of cloth with colors soaked into them, they would probably say nothing. Personally, I don't think anybody should have to burn something that respected, but it does happen in form of radical action. Burning the flag is a form of protest, yes a drastic way of protest, but it is. And making that illegal is taking our first amendment right! In turn, making it illegal, takes the ideals for what the flag stands for. Burning the flag may actually show how american a person is. You don't need some symbol to prove we have freedom and rights. You need to actually go out and exercise those freedoms and rights.
Frank (frank986@aol.com) 18 Dec 00
While I will never burn the flag, I know people who have done it, and they are as nice a people as you would ever meet. Sure, a large amount of flag burners in Iran, Iraq etc. are a bunch of psychos, but they are brainwashed and misinformed. That is not to say that all flag burners are psychos! The United States is not perfect, and the people in the United States have the right to critique the government as they see fit. Keep in mind that the colonist burned effigies of tax collectors and royals. To flag burners, they are getting rid of a symbol that to them does not mean freedom, justice, etc. but the opposite! I mean, who in their right mind would desecrate a symbol of good, wholesome virtues and ideas? Remember Wounded Knee, both in the 1800s and in the 1970's. Was the flag a symbol of justice then? Remember the human rights violations in Iraq. Was the flag a symbol of peace there? (May I add that he U.S knew Saddam was a demon, but as long as he did his facist actions on Iranian soil, and not in oil rich Kuwat...) People express their outrage over these situations by putting the symbol for the cause of their outrage in flames. They mean no disrespect for war veterans and the like. In fact, many Indian activists at Wounded Knee who displayed the flag upside down where veterans themselves. If these veterans fought for the good American ideals, then burning the flag is thanking them for keeping freedom of speech alive. In short, those who burn the flag to insult veterans, democracy, justice, freedom, and equality are psychotic assholes, but those who burn the flag to show that the country is not standing for one or all of those ideals is one of the truest americans who is taking part in his government. "A little rebellion now and then is a good thing..." Thomas Jefferson
Willow (Limpbizkitchick77@mtv.com) 08 Jan 01
I believe that buring the flag is a freedom of speech. I personally would die for my freedom; no matter how insagnifigant it may seem to others. To me it is giving the gov't more control than they need. When our founding fathers came here they even burnt pics of the royals back in Jolly Ol' England. It seems to me that we have based our intire democrasiy on what they taught us. We need to excersise our freedom when ever we see fit. Not when the gov't sees fit. You gotta fight for your right!!!
A DDISON (firewall268@cs.com) 21 Jan 01
All you people burning the American flag are a disgrace to this country.This is not freedom of speech.It is an action. An action against America.Anyone doing it should be arrested and punished by law.Seeing our flag burned brings so much anger to my heart.The kind of anger that breeds hate,wars and the utmost disrespect for our armed forces.Find another way to protest people.If you felt the love I feel for our flag,you would not burn it.If you cant find that love,then leave the country.The communists and terrorists will love you for burning the flag.I know I am speaking as most Americans feel. (by the way-I didnt watch the flag burn at this site) A. Mehaffey
Warren (Josiah-g@home.com) 13 Feb 01
I thought burning the flag gave me a sence of freedom that we or our Fathers or grandfathers fought for. For you little skank asses who talk about it being a symbol of our freedom, you've got to be just plain old retarded. You talk of the freedom they fought for, they gave us the freedom to burn the damn flag. Have a niceday=)
w ryan (wemryan@ecol.net) 22 Feb 01
I find it very sorrowful to think that i would pay with my life to defend the very flag which people burn, a flag which represents a country whom in turn gives them the right to to do just that.
Dan Henderson () 01 Mar 01
This is a sick discraceful display. Have you ever thought of how many people have fought and died for what that flag stands for. Sure mabye it is just a symbol but if you burn the symbol of what people believe than it is the same as saying to hell with what the flag stands for. Our flag has brought hope to people in sufferage. Our national anthem is about our how the sight of the American flag kept a captures man's hopes up. So mabye all of you who think it is cool to burn the flag for any reason should get a swift kick in the ass. You are all sick bastards.
jenny (jhale2001@hotmail.com) 01 Mar 01
well listen , i belive that the american flag stands for more than just freedom. i belive that it represents all the thousands of people who died so that we could still have the things we have today. i belive that when jerks like peole on here like to sit with their thumbs up their asses and burn an american flag need to learn respect. i belive that any person who burns an american flag burns every last one of their rights along with it.if you burn the american flag you have no rights, you have no first amendment , no freedom of speach. i mean think about would you walk up to an american veteran and ask them if you could burn an american flag , no i do not think so.YOU HAVE TO HAVE RESPECT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sarah (buffy2001belle@aol.com) 25 Mar 01
How can you burn a flag that men and women have died for. The flag represents all the freedoms of America and its stregth over the world. Men captured in war have sown the flag to help them get through. If you don't believe that the flag and the freedoms that have come out of it are real then leave this free country. Here were one can recieve a trial and be given a chance to prove their innocence where as in a forgein country one would be suspeced of a crime and punished no questions asked. This is the home of the free if you dont agree go to another country and compare the freedoms there to those you have here. Your eyes might become open and you' ll relize how fortunate you are to have the right to speech, press, religion, ect.
Mike (Nightwolf88@juno.com) 25 Mar 01
I didn't and never will burn the US flag. We Fought for our colors as did the rest of the world. WE HAVE WON THE RIGHT TO BE FREE I WILL PERSONALLY HARM THE NEXT PERSON WHO TRIES TO TAKE OUR FREEDOM AWAY! As for the americans who burn our flag i pity u. I hate no one i just pity them. The people who died for our freedom are shown no respect for those who burn our flag or post on this board for burning the flag. I may be a teenager but i probably know more about respect than any one who burns our flag. Those who agree with me I hope and wish good luck in ur lives. LONG LIVE THE STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER.
Mikh Gunderman (BoogieMan@netzero.com) 29 Mar 01
The burning is the most digraceful thing an American can do. People have died, millions, defending the honor of our flag, and it sickens me to see it treated with such disrespect. it is my opinion that any one who burns the Amercan flag disgracfully should be stoned by vetrans who watched their friends die for what the flag represents.
Sandy (punkrockprincess417@yahoo.com) 23 Apr 01
Many people ask themselves why nothing ever gets accomplished in the United States. There are multiple theories, or course, but in my opinion, the problem is that people compare the status of our country to that of the other nations. In contrast, the United States appears to be in pretty good shape overall, which satisfies the government and the majority of the American public. On the other hand, when you focus solely on the U. S., an entire new horizon is discovered; a horizon where many problems are clearly visible. I like to call this ³The Green Bean Theory². The Green Bean Theory asks us to consider a plate of vegetables on a table. On the plate you have broccoli, asparagus, green beans, and cabbage (substitutions may be made of any or all vegetables). Out of the four veggies, you would eat the green beans if forced to choose one. This does not mean that you actually LIKE the green beans, but only shows that you prefer them over the other three options. So you put some green beans on your plate and go to sit down. Once seated, you look down at your destiny and see it for what seems to be the first time. You are able to see many problems with the green beans and you realize that you wish you had some salt. In this scenario, the green beans represent the United States while the other veggies are countries we see as being less desirable for whatever reason. The salt is change. Oftentimes people notice problems, but are too lazy to take action. One such problem is our decreasing Constitutional Rights, such as the right to freedom of speech. In the United States, in this day and age, the government attempts to control and censor every aspect of life, thus leaving the American public with only the views, ideas, and information they want you to have. By doing this, the government channels more and more power in their direction and draining it from us. If people donıt start to take [corrupted]
Phillip (discostud78@hotmail.com) 08 May 01
patriotic people are ok. non-patriotic people are ok. at least they both believe in something. the people who dont care are the real bad ones. go ahead, burn your flags, i may join you.
A.J. (juice_handy@hotmail.com) 17 May 01
I am finding it very hard to understand the justification that those people who burn the flag are giving. The flag is a symbol of the United States. I dont know where you are getting the idea that its just a piece of cloth. There is a reason that the flag is flown outside every government building, school children pledge their allegiance to the flag, and the service men and women salute and honor it; because it IS the symbol of the United States. So if the flag is the symbol of the United States, and you burn the flag and claim the first ammendment provides protection, arent you a hypocrit? You burn the very item which represents the country which granted you that freedom. So what are you accomplishing? Is anything going to change because you burned the flag? Of course not. All you are is a low class person with very low self esteem who needs the attention that ALLEDGEDLY burning the flag gains you. I find it hard to believe that someone who needs to hide behind a computer would ever have the intestinal fortitude that it takes to burn a flag in public. You need a life because you obviously dont understand what the flag means. It is one thing to be against an ammendment to prohibit flag burning, which i am, and another to be in favor of burning the flag, which i am not. I believe that while the flag is a symbol of everything great in this country, the indecent fools who burn the flag are no great threat to its ideals and do not warrant the need to ammend the constitution. The flag burners never will make a difference and should not even be given the dignity of giving them the fight that they want the attention for.
Sandy (punkrockprincess417@yahoo.com) 20 May 01
Ok, AJ...would you rather save the American ideal, or a piece of cloth? That is, of course, if you had to choose one or the other. I mean, if you found out that some other country had a giant missle aimed at the United States, would you try to find a way to disarm their missle or to cancel out its effects...or would you grab someone's painted bed sheet and skip the country? I know what I'd do...I'd stay behind and do everything in my power to kep the nation from going under. The idea our country was built on means more to me than the symbol it's supposed to connote. With the US in it's current condition, it's not worthy of being represented by the flag. I have no problem with the flag at all...it's just a piece of cloth...burning it is simply a way to protest, and it's perfectly legal. It is NOT disrespectful to war veterans. We burn the flag to symbolize the moral downfall of our country, and the fact that we have digressed. How can you just sit there and say the things you say...don't you know that every move you make is planned out and tracked by your elected political leaders? I don't understand why you don't see it...
A.J. (juice_handy@hotmail.com) 21 May 01
OK...So the flag is just a piece of cloth. Well then we can burn the Constitution then, i mean its just paper. Make sure you get the bill of rights too. But Why stop there? Lets knock down the Washington monument, its just stone. That might even be more effective because that would take some real effort. But dont let that stop you because the Statue of Liberty is just waiting to fall.
Sandy (punkrockprincess417@yahoo.com) 28 May 01
AJ, if you want to burn the Constitution, go ahead. It IS just a piece of paper. It's the ideals behind the paper that are important. If you want to knock over the Washington monument and the Statue of Liberty, more power to you...I wish you luck. However, those things are national landmarks, and that would be illegal. If you wanted to go out and get a replica, you could do whatever you wanted to it. It would be your personal property. It's not like any of us are storming museums trying to burn the original flag or anything. When the first flag was produced, it really meant something...but now, our country has hurdled into a downward spiral. We're flying deeper and deeper into the infinate abyss. Do you really want everyone to use this country as a means of representing you? Are you a lying, cheating, cold-blooded beast like what is represented by America's government? I hope not. Had I been around back in the early days of our national freedom, I would've had as much, if not more, passion to fight for the USA as anyone. Back then, people had a purpose and lived for more than working to pay the bills. Are you really happy with the establishment we call our country? If you are, that's great, and I'm happy for you. However, I will not simply exist without reason. I'm all about making things better. Maybe someday soon there will be a reason for me to have a greater respect for the flag, but for now...it's pointless to try to impress your opinions onto me.
Stacey (Candlelight918@aol.com) 07 Jun 01
I think that this is the most disgusting and disrespectful thing I have ever seen. This may be a "free" country but your disrespect is disturbing. People have died so that you can be free and this is how you respect them...That is terrible. My family stands for this country and you appearantly don't stand for anything but stupidity.
Steve (withusinspirit@bigfoot.com) 09 Jun 01
Well, well. According to some of these people, you have "freedom". Freedom to say what you believe. As long as it agrees with THEIR beliefs. Hmmmmmmmm, where have I heard that before? If somebody died to "protect my freedom" to agree with what's popular, they died in vain. I've got news for all of you. That's legal, and encouraged, everywhere. God bless the vet who posted that message so eloquently in a post below this. You are a hero, and I admire you more than I can say.
Christopher Zervosz (zervoslives@hotmail.com) 14 Jun 01
It' s so sad to see the way that American's blindly identify with their country like it's a parent or a religion. If your country takes a turn you don't agree with, and it took that turn in an undemocratic and non-representitive fashon, you have a duty to fight it, disrespect it, and "rebel" against it in defense of the IDEAL of democracy. This was pretty cool, I myself am interested in the issue as I am a painter, and I am planning a flag burning photo session so that I can paint the images that result. I have to say though, the color isn't pretty.
Coggs, Albert (coggsalbert@hotmail.com) 23 Jun 01
The American's Creed I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic, a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect Union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrified their lives and fotunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies [domestic and foreign]. --Adopted by the House of Representatives on 03 April 1918
*Sandy* (punkrockprincess417@yahoo.com) 24 Jun 01
Albert, do not those values you feel you should respect also give you the right to burn the flag, if that's what you decided you wanted to do? It does not say, in the Constitution of the United States, that you are free to do as you wish as long as you don't offened other people. If that were the case, no one would be able to do anything, because you cannot find something that offends no one. The Constitution does not say that you may do as you please as long as it's socially acceptable. During the Holocaust, it was socially acceptable to mistreat Jewish people...but that does NOT, by ANY means make it right. It is socially unacceptable to wear stripes with plaid, but should it be a crime? Should you beat down those people who choose to be bold and swim upstream? It's the same with burning the flag. As I have said before, we are not doing it to disrespect those who fought and died for our country. They have been loyal to their nation, and we respect that. They fought for ideas, not for a piece of dyed cloth. Yes, that cloth once stood for those ideas, but look at the government now. Look at all the homeless people and the national debt. Look at the urbanization of every remaining forest we have. We're stripping our land of its remaining beauty without even thinking twice. Back to the flag issue...Nowadays, the flag stands for whatever you want it to stand for. The military uses it, schools, the KKK, churches, many organizations with different purposes...Do you stand for what those things stand for? I certainly hope you don't stand for all of them. The flag itself has been soiled. So many conflicting parties try to stand behind it and all they do is confuse people. What's it all about? Everyone you talk to will tell you something different about what the flag represents. Today, I'd say it reveals corruption in our country.
Tom Robles (kupiou16@yahoo.com) 12 Jul 01
It is unfortunate that so many people feel so harshly about our country! With out the men and women who have put their lives on the line or have died saving your life, and keeping your freedoms we would still be under the rule of England and forced to do things we shouldn't have to do. Or maybe Japan, or Germany, or Russia may be the ones ruling us now. Without those people we have nothing. I feel sorry for all of you who have no respect for our country. All who feel this way I will pray for!
Peter Stam (sib@sibism.com) 27 Jul 01
Have you all ever read "a people's history of the united states"? If so, how can you still be able to say this freedom of expression without being beaten down crap? I advice you download the cd "market democracy" (or any other) by Noam Chomsky on programs that are a variation to Napster. (there's no free competition by any means, there). It's a noble cliché to believe the military "fight for someone other's freedom" but honestly, isn't fighting for peace (and freedom) like fucking for virginity? In other words: just a load of crap, covered up by sugarcoating words ... Freedom of expression is more than just the opportunity to say something, it's also the right to stand for those ideas. I advise you all to look around on http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com
Julian (calbrech@sentex.net) 04 Aug 01
well, I decided to add my $0.02 to this. Being a "bleeding heart, gay-loving, pointy headed, commie-bastard" liberal, I think you can guess what my opinion is gonna be... Arguing against burning the flag is a very hypocrtical statement. It is a method of expression and speach. If i'm not mistaken, most people agree with the idea of freedom of speech. therefore, to deny someone the right to burn the flag is to deny them freedom of speech. read that last sentance again, cause its very important. If you say you support freedom of speech, then you must support the freedom to burn a flag of any nation. If you support freedom of speech, then you support all forms of speech and expression, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU DISAGREE WITH THE OPINION. Otherwise, you do not support freedom of speach. Many people support freedom of speech, but only for what they agree with. this next point is very important as well, so pay attention.... If you support freedom of speech, then you support freedom for someone else to say something you disagree with. If someone is not allowed to express themselves however they want (without harming anyone of cource) then they do not have freedom of speech. Please feel free to email me if you have any comments on this point. Julian
Ty (fizgig@fastdraw.net) 06 Aug 01
Well... I know little 'bout your country, but what i've seen sofar... Burn the flag! ... Perhaps a little bit more thinking a bit less action, and get those priorities straight. Perhaps the biggest problem.... Earth consists of more that just the US (think this has gotten you over and over again in trouble)... First fix your own problems. Leave the rest of the world (the other 95%) be. One big mess. The Netherlands are small but definitly a lot less problems.
Tiffany Walker (tiffhoe44@hotmail.com) 07 Sep 01
why do you have such a disgusting advertisement? are you for or against flag burning. i dont understand the point of the page and i would like for the point of it to be explained. the sickness of what is portrayed can be disturbing to some viewers. and to my knowledge, i did not burn the flag, you did. freaks.
Theodore Allardyce (tfga@madasafish.com) 05 Jan 02
A country that outlaws homosexuality, still has the death penalty, and is the only country to use nuclear weapons in war time [on 2 civilian targets] (kind of puts sept.11 in perspective) has some major issues... don't 'add making flag burning illigal', your just making it too easy for us to take the piss out of your country :)
whit () 15 Jan 02
People didn't die for the flag they died for what it stands for. They died for the freedoms and rights we have. If they pass the law against flag burning it is just another freedom that has been limited. Besides you should be able to burn personal property, if they burn someone elses flag you can put them in jail for vandalism and theft. Don't put them in jail for burning the flag, that is just showing the world how ignorant we can be, again.
antwan (PunxNotDead@aol.com) 16 Jan 02
if the KKK can get away with burning crosses and then publicizing it, other people should be able to get away with burning the US flag, especially since the cross is more "sacred" than the american flag.......
Sarah (ixi_dopey_ixi@mac.com) 26 Mar 02
I came across this page.... looking for others somewhat like myself actually, and I've found some small amount of complacement inside it. I haven't read entirely through it yet, but I did find comfort in the fact that I'm not the only one who's chosen to not be another silent conformist. There's too much for me to say and not enough room here or anywhere else for me to say it, so I'll just say thank you and get this page out to more people.... I'll surely add a link to it on my page. ~*~ Sic transit gloria mundi ~*~ -Dopey
marty (martistic@comcast.net) 28 Mar 02
This site is so hypocritical. Burning a symbol of freedom may just be a way to express your freedom, but it only shows that you can not commit to anything. This site talks about freedom of speech and yet you moderate what is posted in your guestbook. It states that clearly! You or whom ever burns our flag has no commitment to anything or anyone but your selfish self. I bet you never once suffered for anything or anyone. Yet you cry about your freedoms. People must easily forget how many people have died for the freedoms that we take for granted today. this is hypocritical and ridiculous. Dont ever burn a flag publicly in woodbridge virginia or cheraw, south carolina. That is wear i live and that is where i am from. Yes you have the right to do it but If you do and invite me than i will take the freedom to defend my countries flag by any means necessary. Hows that for freedom? It must be real difficult for you to be so broad minded and self righteous. I served this country in the military and i continue to serve this country out of the military. I have been poor and now I am an small business owner. Dont you Remember "its not what your country can do for you, its what you can do for your country", and by burning this countries glorious flag you are just starting to help out, right! You are not Americans, you flag-burners are terrorists that will only have satisfaction when this great government is no more. You are trying to use freedom to destroy a symbol of freedom. Such hyprocrits!
Sarah...... Again (ixi_dopey_ixi@mac.com) 29 Mar 02
Good one marty..... if I could have stifled through your awful spelling with more ease, maybe I wouldn't have been so irritated by your ignorant message. But I in fact was....Y'know what man? I find it offensive that the government and that beloved "old glory" that you fought and so many died for, is the same one that's currently and long has been screwing her people over. Y'know what else I find offensive, the fact that the men in my family who I grew up respecting, loving and honoring are the same ones who fought for this BS country but are left now with themselves and families that can't get on insurance. I find it offensive that we as a nation would gladly rather (and do so happily) send food, supplies, meds, whatever to "less fortunate" countries around the world, while our own suffer in the streets. I find it offensive that the same B52's that harmed Afghanistan later dropped packets of food, supplies and leaflets saying we were there to help and that we did all this damage in the name of our god. I find it offensive that after destroying Japan, we sent troops over to pass out candy to all their little children. I find it offensive that any person, anywhere (not just in america) should have to sit in pain, and die suffering or be sent back home without help because they cant afford modern medicine. I find it offensive that billionaires sit comfortably in their imported leather chairs with money in their pockets they'll never spend and not a care in the world, while average joe struggles to get by week to week. I find it offensive that we do damage in the name of our "god" and it's okay and justified but when another race does it to us it's wrong and tragic. I find it offensive that I sit in a house where bills move my parents to tears. I find it offensive that my little brothers and children everywhere are being raised as silent conformists. I find it offensive that I'll have my thumbprint on my drivers license within the next few years. I find if offensive that we'll have street lights that can tell us who and what color we are in the near future. I find it offensive that the nightmares of 1984, Anthem, Fahrenheit 451 and so many others are becoming a reality. I find if offensive that every single business in this disgusting country has found a way to make money of the loss on 9/11. I find it offensive, that people stick "god bless america" on Toyotas, Hondas and BMWs. I find it offensive that a woman like Yates wasn't given the death penalty, and even more offensive that her husband isn't in serious law trouble. I find it offensive that our court system shut napster down. I find if offensive that when I call the police because I'm hearing open gunfire, they take 2 hours to show up, but when they read any serious anti-american message, they can show up to your front door in 15 minutes. I find it offensive, that our government backs up a black history month, yet no other nationalities have their own month. I find it offensive that our sports entertainers and other celebrities get paid more than our fire fighters, and teachers. I find it offensive that the struggle for financial freedom is so unfair....... IF I'M A ""TERRORIST"" THEN SO BE IT..... but I'll ask you not to label me for I'll never live up to all the standards for any one label. Terrorist? Please...... I'm much more terrified of you blind, ignorant sheep like patriots than you have reason to be of someone like me.
Dasein (emirajhe@N05PAMhotmail.com) 01 Apr 02
First, anyone who dies for a piece of cloth dies in vain. If you wish to or are force to give your life for your ideals, your family, friends or even your god as may be the case, I have respect for such sacrifice. But to die for 'Old Glory' or any other flag is a pathetic waste and you dishonor the memory of those who died for noble causes by claiming they dies for the flag. Second, I support burning the flag. I support iconoclasm in general not because it is a political statement (although I often support the political statements made by those who burn the flag) but because iconoclasm prevents us from elevating the symbolic representations- the images- over the ideals those images supposedly stand for. Flags and other icons are like the images cast on the wall in Plato's cave. They are merely the shadows of the ideas behind them, but are not the ideas themselves. However, we often mistake the images of the ideas for the ideas themselves and thus we mistake flags for freedom.
brian foley (nogodsnomasters64@hotmail.com) 05 May 02
just a message to say during world war 2,some several thousand americans fought for nazi germany none were ever prosecuted.john walker lindh stands to lose his life or freedom. why is he being victimised, if all these flag wavers would like to reply,i would appreciate this.remember the greatest american flagwaver was john wayne yet he did not serve in ww2 he put his career before service to his country and bought his way out.
laura () 16 May 02
you're all sick. you should be happy you live in america other people die because of hunger and lack of freedom, what is wrong with you? this is a flag, your parents, grandparents, great uncles and aunts all fought for the freedom of america. why burn a flag? respect america or leave america!!
Eric D. McKee (orisis_99@hotmail.com) 31 May 02
I totally believe in what the burning of the stripes stands for, I am in my American Government class right now, and my teacher has numerously pointed out that it is not only my right, but also my duty as an American citizen.
Zach (darkelf@ctc.net) 27 Jun 02
I don't care either way if a person burns a flag. The truth of it is is that the American Flag, like any other, is just a piece of dyed fabric. To me, it means nothing. The only thing that matters in what the flag stands for, the country and its people. Those U.S citizens who died in war did not die for a piece of cloth that can be bought for $5.97 at the local super market. They died to protect the ideals and the citizens of America. Remember, a symbol can be changed. Any other symbol could be used to the same effect. At anytime ol' Glory could be replaced by a flag featuring a can of baked beans. The symbol matters nought, the idea all. Besides, banning Flag-burning would go against what the flag itself is a symbol of.
gus (zorngottes@hotmail.com) 29 Jun 02
i am an australian student who recently completed a philosophy course covering the nature of free speech and i was pleasntly surprised by this site. i expected no brainer responses from both sides of the argument but what found is that (some) people are actually giving serious thoughts to their rights and the nature of the american constitution. as a strong believer in free speech believe that the burning of a flag is the right of every person, and i would be proud to do so in the country i live in or to burn the flag of another nation. Mill (the father of American free speech) wanted a country of free speech so that an enlightened society would evolve, this is prevented by knee-jerk reactions on both sides of debate and sites like this where seemingly intelligent people can debate go a long way to promote Mill's dream
Mike (DeReetkever@aol.com) 04 Jul 02
Hello, This is good for the true ideals behind life, liberty, and the persue of happieness. Burning the flag is good for protesting and it should be used. The quotes and writings here makes sense of our country more than the consistution. I hate America. I'm not ashamed of it. America is a very evil place. I'm happy take some lighters to the good ol' red, white, and blue fabric.
mary (vanamonde_m@yahoo.com) 12 Sep 02
yes, i did just burn the flag. and it felt pretty good. last night two of my freinds were arested for burning a flag. i could, according to the wording in the law, be arrested for visiting this site. ridiculous! the only difference between the ceremony performed to "retire" a flag- which entails that the flag be burned- and what people are now being arrested for (AGAIN) is the thoughts in the heads of those lighting the fires. we are arresting people for what they think. that is disgraceful. so, you, america, "you land of the free" you supporter of only superficial patriotism, you continually dissapoint me. i think that "land of hypocrisy" is much more accurate. you think you can buy little plastic nonflamable flags and be patriots, but the truth is, you "brave", that when you are confronted with real issues on freedom, you would rather turn your back as the true patriots, the ones who truely love their freedom and are willing to sacrifice for yours, are led away in handcuffs
burn it (astheivysslowlycreeping@yahoo.com) 12 Sep 02
when people are saying what you want to hear, freedom of speech doesn't even enter your mind. in reality few people support free speech. it is the test of a person's beleifs to see something they do not like, to hear someone saying something you think is wrong: and to still admit they have the right to say it. i also want to say that there have been many many veterans advocating the right to burn the flag. they fought for that right. your pappy didn't die for a peice of cloth with stars and stripes on it. your daddy died so that you would have the freedom of expression guaranteed in the constitution.
Andie (jupitergurl1287@yahoo.com) 12 Sep 02
hm. i suppose there really is no problem with a site like this, as this country offers freedom of speech and expression. but personally, i feel nothing about the burning of a flag. all it is a piece of cloth, even if it is considered a "symbol" of this country. that's all it is, a symbol. burning it has no real effect on anything. if you have a problem with this country and want to do something about it, burning a symbol of the thing you're pissed about isn't gonna change anything. things won't get better. write to the president about how you feel about the way this country is run, or something more productive than this. burning things gets you nowhere (especially virtually burning virtual things), and this country is still the hellhole you originally found it to be. i'll admit, i have pride in this country and clicked the link to burn the flag by mistake. however, i have respect for your opinions. take my opinions or leave them, but i think that sharing your opinions with someone in power, like a senator or even the president, will have a little more effect and will earn more respect than burning a piece of cloth.
Tom (german1982@aol.com) 22 Sep 02
Hi everybody, I'm a German and I'm proud of it. Don't get this wrong, I'm not a NAZI, although everybody thinks ...oh, he's proud of being a german, he must be a nazi... I don't burn your flag because I hate the American people, nope, I just hate your government. What are they doing? They save the world by bombing small and helpless countries which nobody really knows and kill hundreds of women and children. GREAT. And just look at our small German shops: Since the big American WAL-MARTS (and other big stores) have started to "conquer" Germany our economy is fatally bad. OK, that's it, now I'll burn your f... flag...
The Government sucks (freethinkerx@hotmail.com) 01 Oct 02
First off, I have no problem with america itself but I hate the people who are running it. And all you people who say, "if you don't like america why don't you get out?" What I say to that is that I don't get out because the constitution that was made when this country was still great still gives me the right to disagree with the government so if you don't like that you're the one who can get the fuck out and go live in a fucking police state somewhere!
Heather () 07 Oct 02
My name is Heather I am not afraid to leave my real name, Flag burning is a right as the first admeant states. If you take this away your taking away our right to freedom of speech, are you not. My grandfather was in the navy, its not that i have anything against the us, its that i believe the only right we do have is freedom of speech. I believe that all other rights we have are not rights but privlages, and can be taken away. But not freedom of speech. Ask you self how would you feel if you didnt have the right ot speak up when something is wrong? As my mom always says Closed mouths never get fed.
Izaak Kielotas (sx8er_4_life@yahoo.com) 10 Oct 02
People, I understand that we ALL want freedom. But let's look at the concept of burning the flag. You burn it thinking free speech, to you that is what it represents. BUT to people in the middle east burning the flag, it is because they hate the US and all we stand for. The fact that you hate the way it is ran is one thing, but to disregard the people who have died and also risked they're lives is wrong. I personally believe in full freedom of speech. If you feel that you hate America, burn the flag, but if you did it just for freedom of speech, find other ways. Such as I did, I and other people stood outside the capital of Texas and had picket signs saying "The first ammendment gave us free speech, why do you interfere with our rights." and many other signs. We went on for over 36 hours until finally we were arrested. THAT is showing you want freedom, but burning a flag is showing you only want hate,and war to continue... Later.
a concerned citizen of the planet () 24 Oct 02
i've just come across this site, and read some of the archived comments. there is some real anger about the burning of the flag, much of it expressed in an unintelligible prehistoric-man kind of way. (it's quite refreshing to see some intelligent answers in there too). to me, the american flag stands for patriotism/nationalism at its worst. we are all citizens of the WORLD, the idea of separateness is a construct, nothing more, although unfortunately it is now fully entrenched in our collective unconscious. people automatically see the flag as standing for freedom, but just how free are we in this capitalist society? to burn a flag is BAD - why? who says so? we can never be unbiased, we always see things under a subjective light, which is not necessarily the RIGHT VIEW. our views are NOT STABLE either, they change over time, so we shouldn't really judge others (but we do). blind patriotism is just as dangerous in its own way as blind faith in religion or science.
luke (lukos33@hotmail.com) 04 Nov 02
don't be so silly. we are not all 'citizens of the world', we are citizens of our own countries. Burning the flag is an absurd practise. Give it a rest- if you want to be a 'citizen of the world' go and live in a 3rd world country, or somewhere thast offers none of the comforts that america does. don't just lap it up and then burn the symbol of your nation.
Sarah Salzwedel () 04 Nov 02
The flag does not only symbolize our government, but it symbolizes those (and their families) who have fought, died, and live under the flag protecting it. It is a symbol of the hardships brouhgt upon every American to get to the place we are today. Burning the flag is not only a sign of disrespect to the government, but a slap in the face to those people who fight for us to keep our rights. It seems far more appropriete to take any sort of complaint or disagreement to the government in a respectful way. That is what our system is for and this is what has been agreed upon by the people of the United States. If we do not respect our country by respecting the government we have chosen we cannot expect any sort of respect or compliance with what we feel. Burning a flag really does nothing more than spitting in a person's face to show them your pissed off does.
Yusef Koba (palestinelives@yahoo.co.uk) 11 Nov 02
I burn the flag of the true terrorists. Palestine will be again. Arabs are those on the side of good, America is Satan. Killing of innocents in Afghanistan, aiding Isreal who murders children, and now wanting to kill Iraqis. Americans will burn! I would rather be hated for who I am, than to be loved for who I am not.
Hristos N Triantafillou (OperationOmega311@yahoo.com) 24 Nov 02
i must commend you for being valiant enough to stand up for what you believe in. with fascist ideals growing quickly in this country and true democracy of the people fading, we need more people like you to speak out instead of pull the patriot blinds over their eyes and think it is ok... "as long as i can golf and drive my kids to the mall in my ford excursion, and SPEND SPEND, i dont care what is really going on!" you are indeed a true patriot and a real human! thanks!!
Kebin Fuguhesu (plank@eddzone.zzn.com) 29 Dec 02
I proudly burn the flag. I am a US Citizen. I burn the flag when i think of all the Japanese people who died as a result of the US's atomic bombs. I burn the flag when I think of the US genocide in other countries. I burn the flag when I think of the homeland liberties evaporating. I burn the flag because I hate countries like Nazi Germany. And before you say anything, I AM leaving because I can't stand the neo-fascist government. I am moving to Japan, my home, and a country as free (if not more free) than the USA. As It has been stated many times before, those who are against flag burning are fascist hypocrites who can't stand individual thought and freedom.